I've been reading a lot stuff across the web about cults.
And, people who are claiming to reveal the dark side of various doctrines.
I am grieved to see so many Christians who are making it their mission
to point fingers at other Christians.
We need to speak truth & point people to Christ.
Why are so many focused on dragging fellow Christians through the mud?
Is it easier to point the finger at a group of people & call them names,
than "looking to yourself, lest you too be tempted"?
Are the Ezzos "cult" leaders, because they have a large "following"?
Does a church become a cult, because people are hesitant to leave?
Are families cults, if they are tight-knit & value the leadership of the father?
Read this very thoughtful blog post by the Protestant Knight,
calling us to be careful on who we call a cult.
It might just come back around to bite you, too.
What about exposing the "dark side"?
If there are wicked people who abuse & control their children,
and also homeschool them,
does that prove the "dark side" of homeschooling?
If there are wicked men who abuse & treat their wife with condescension,
and also say their are part of the Patriarchy movement,
does that expose a dark side of the doctrine?
If there are child molesters masquerading as priests in the Catholic church,
does that prove a darkness to celibacy?
I would say, "NO"!
I am not saying that I believe all the doctrines or ideas or groups to be correct.
But, are they to blame for people's sin?
People sin & sin wickedly & identify with may different groups & ideas.
We could therefore end up exposing the "dark side" of everything.
Where does it end? What is the point?
Why don't we just expose untruth & sin?
Be gracious. Not just to a person's face. But also online.
Remember that what you write online, can't be taken back.
15 comments:
The more I hear, see, and read about Christians waring against Christians; certain denominations tearing other denominations down, the more I begin to think that the church itself is going to destroy itself. I'm not sure we need to worry about the world, I think we need to watch ourselves.
I loved what you said here, "We need to speak truth & point people to Christ." That's God's free Gospel in action, right there and when I see it lived out, its beautiful.
I do think we need to be careful of real cults, because they are out there and they are *very* deceiving and are all of man and not of God. Since we're warned in Scripture to be discerning and to stay away from false teachers, teaching false Doctrines, I do think its something we need to be very careful of. 1 Timothy chapters 1 and 6 come to mind {I'm not saying the things you're talking about here ARE real cults, just in general}
But, I think sometimes people become cultish themselves, when they make it their end goal to see another cult be brought to light, pointed out, and torn down.
Anytime we put something in the place of God, it becomes a cult or idol of our heart. It scares me to see how people manage to do some of these things all in the name of Christ. When we need more than the living Word of God and when we begin to follow after and imitate man, rather than Christ, I think we've become cultish and left Truth behind.
google told me this comment was too long (haha!) and so I'll paste the rest in a different comment :)
..... Also, I'd have to say if people in a church are being led to believe that by leaving and going to a different church makes them in danger of Hell fire, then yes, I would say that 1st church sounds like a cult of sorts :)
We're all going to be held accountable for our own sins for sure, but I do think that God will hold men/women accountable for leading people into sin. Deceiving people into believing that they have a special/different message from God, than what God has already given us through His Word.
I agree with you in that some of this knit picking eventually becomes sin, because it tends to serve no other point, but to point out that you (the person talking against it) is right and the other is wrong. I've not done any reading on these specific websites you're referring to (and I don't think I will) but I often wonder why people have websites "against" this stuff. Why not just do what you said - expose TRUTH?!
I have a friend on FB who has recently joined a very... interesting church. She's made it her goal lately, to post these very "in your face" status updates about the "new" truths she's learning from the Torah. I've been really encouraged by a Pastor friend (from Sacramento) who is mutual friends of mine and this girl's - his comments to her have done nothing but point her to the Scriptures and to remind her of the Truth that Christ gives us in them; the promises, commands and Covenants He's made with His people. I love that he stays on topic and is very kind in his approach and gives Scripture to back up everything he tells her. Its been personally encouraging for me to see and learn from.
Its all about Christ. When it becomes more than that, I think we've erred off course.
sorry this was so lengthy - this is a really deep topic!
I know! It is too deep of a topic for such a little post. You are right.
Just out of curiosity, did you read the post I linked about what we should call a cult, and what we should not? I thought it was really good & helpful to the whole discussion.
{another LONG comment, sorry!)
I did read the article. While I found it to be well written and I agree what that man is saying, I also found it to be very lacking.
He never even gave the actual definition of what a cult is! He just goes on and on assuring his readers that HE knows first hand what it is and therefore everyone should trust him (and the man named Hexham) who weighs in on the subject. I'm totally ready to admit that maybe I just missed it all. I read it and then re-read 3 times, to see if I was missing something and I (personally) found it to be very lacking. I like to put myself in the shoes of someone who's decided that the church (by and large) is a cult. I think I would've walked away more confused after reading his article... but maybe its just me :)
A cult is not simply a place where the leaders talk you into sacrificing your first born, or going out and killing dogs and other such household pets for giving up as burnt sacrifices to God, etc... those would be jumping to the extreme cases of a cult and it really bothers me when people act like you have to be talking about extremes or nothing. There are often slighter cases of cults, just as there can be slighter cases of abuse and the like. Not all forms of abuse lead to someone dying. But they're ALL wrong.
And I personally do believe people being led astray from the Word of God are in fact brainwashed. I'm not sure there's any better word to describe it. Its what sin does to us. Is his specific church (denomination) doing that? I don't really know, since I've never gone to one :) My impression of SGM is not that they're a cult at all... but there are people out there who would say just being a Christian means you're in a cult!
{here's the 2nd half}
For-instance, If you look the word "cult" up in the dictionary, its an interesting find. I can see how some people have decided to say that Christians are members of a cult. And my feeling is, let them say whatever they want. I don't need to run out, making sure they all know its not a cult. My witness and testimony of God's grace is my shield and defense, not quotes from other people.
I know that by being adopted into God's family I have not joined a cult. But because the mainstream of society is taught that we are each our own and should serve NO master and should love ourselves the most and be good to ourselves only - and to live and die for peace, I can see exactly why to so many of my unbelieving friends, I look like I've joined a nice, big fat cult. Especially because every week they pass around a basket, asking for my money ;-)
It appeared to me that his article just stated that he knows firsthand what a cult is and that most of us don't and so we need to be careful and understand his church is NOT a cult. I've heard many cases where someone leaves a cult or abusive atmosphere, only to end up returning to a new form of one. I don't want to imply that's this man's issue at all, just putting it out there :)
I have no issues with Sovereign Grace Ministries (though I confess I don't know a ton about them). I think this man has been offended by things he's seeing online (lies) about his church that are concerning to him, which is fine. I wished he had gone into those a bit more and addressed them, rather than state what the naysayers say and then just move on.
I do get worried when I see people defending their denomination or culture and not defending the Gospel. Which (btw) is not necessarily what I saw this man doing, but it does seem to be very popular these days; denominations waring against denominations.
If someone/something goes against God's Word and is pointing people to a false god and false religion, then yes, I would hope its brought to light, pointed out and exposed. But I think his main point in his article was pointing out that his church serves and loves the One, true God and that alone doesn't make them a cult. I don't know though, because he didn't really elaborate!
Here is the definition for CULT that I found on Dictionary.com
–noun
1. a particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to its rites and ceremonies.
2. an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, esp. as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.
3. the object of such devotion.
4. a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc.
5. Sociology . a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites centering around their sacred symbols.
6. a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader.
7. the members of such a religion or sect.
8. any system for treating human sickness that originated by a person usually claiming to have sole insight into the nature of disease, and that employs methods regarded as unorthodox or unscientific.
It does sound like the article did just serve as confusion for you. I'm sorry!
The man is a former member of SGM & is not defending it as "his" church. He is just saying that because a certain pastor or some church leaders were authoritative & perhaps even abusive, that doesn't make it a cult. Here's his "about" page that may help.
http://sgmrefuge.com/about/
I guess if you are okay with Christians being called cults, than the dictionary definition will suffice for you. To me, it seems the word looses a bit of weight & begins to mean nothing, if any Christian or religious person can be called a cult member.
I like what Jason said -- "you can be a church that believes all those Biblical truths; those good and right doctrines that he listed on his post and still add to and take away and essentially become false teachers of false doctrine."
My main "issue" with his post was that, right there. I think cults can be so deceiving because they look, at first glance, to be inline with scripture and following Christ and not one (or a few) men. Only to realize after attending the church for sometime, that "oh my goodness! I think we belong to a cult!"
I think that's when you tend to have people hesitant to leave those churches, because they start being told things like "once you leave here, your children will start dying, your husband will lose his job, your home will burn down, etc..." (I actually know people who were told all those things).
I honestly have no idea who the man is who wrote that article. Never heard of him and I've never been on his website, so I don't have any background on him, as a person. Maybe that's why the article wasn't as helpful?
There's a funny term called "feeding the trolls" and I feel like posts like his are exactly that. I just don't want to poke fun, because I do understand how serious these topics really are.
People will be fighting about this kind of stuff as long as we're here on earth. People will call me a nut case, brainwashed, dysfunctional, etc... all because I'm a follower of Christ. I don't really care. I'm pretty prepared to hear it all :)
I just sincerely wish people would stop being so hung up on things like this and just be all about Christ and sharing His gospel! I loved how you said that in your post. "Expose the truth."
The truth WILL set us free!!
ALL that said, it is sad how people make it their day's goal to go online and post such nasty things about something they didn't like. It boarders on the ridiculous to me. Its like people who go on some of these popular "mommy blogs" and make it their goal to tell off the author of the blog. Its annoying and those people tend to be written off as self righteous jerks and trouble makers.
thanks for the thought provoking conversation! :)
On the one hand, I know it matters that we actually have a good definition of what a cult is, because they truly exist. But on the other hand, it doesn't seem to be that important to define it. Since in reality, almost everyone takes it to be something extremely negative. So, whatever your definition, when someone throws around that term, they mean it in a negative, bad sense. Meaning we should be very careful when we use that term with other Christians. Does that make sense? I don't know how well I am conveying what I am thinking... it is late and I should be in bed. ;)
I like it, Krista! And yes, I think it made perfect sense. Maybe even more so than my 5+ comments did :)
The more I hear, see, and read about Christians waring against Christians; certain denominations tearing other denominations down, the more I begin to think that the church itself is going to destroy itself. I'm not sure we need to worry about the world, I think we need to watch ourselves.
I loved what you said here, "We need to speak truth & point people to Christ." That's God's free Gospel in action, right there and when I see it lived out, its beautiful.
I do think we need to be careful of real cults, because they are out there and they are *very* deceiving and are all of man and not of God. Since we're warned in Scripture to be discerning and to stay away from false teachers, teaching false Doctrines, I do think its something we need to be very careful of. 1 Timothy chapters 1 and 6 come to mind {I'm not saying the things you're talking about here ARE real cults, just in general}
But, I think sometimes people become cultish themselves, when they make it their end goal to see another cult be brought to light, pointed out, and torn down.
Anytime we put something in the place of God, it becomes a cult or idol of our heart. It scares me to see how people manage to do some of these things all in the name of Christ. When we need more than the living Word of God and when we begin to follow after and imitate man, rather than Christ, I think we've become cultish and left Truth behind.
google told me this comment was too long (haha!) and so I'll paste the rest in a different comment :)
I like it, Krista! And yes, I think it made perfect sense. Maybe even more so than my 5+ comments did :)
{another LONG comment, sorry!)
I did read the article. While I found it to be well written and I agree what that man is saying, I also found it to be very lacking.
He never even gave the actual definition of what a cult is! He just goes on and on assuring his readers that HE knows first hand what it is and therefore everyone should trust him (and the man named Hexham) who weighs in on the subject. I'm totally ready to admit that maybe I just missed it all. I read it and then re-read 3 times, to see if I was missing something and I (personally) found it to be very lacking. I like to put myself in the shoes of someone who's decided that the church (by and large) is a cult. I think I would've walked away more confused after reading his article... but maybe its just me :)
A cult is not simply a place where the leaders talk you into sacrificing your first born, or going out and killing dogs and other such household pets for giving up as burnt sacrifices to God, etc... those would be jumping to the extreme cases of a cult and it really bothers me when people act like you have to be talking about extremes or nothing. There are often slighter cases of cults, just as there can be slighter cases of abuse and the like. Not all forms of abuse lead to someone dying. But they're ALL wrong.
And I personally do believe people being led astray from the Word of God are in fact brainwashed. I'm not sure there's any better word to describe it. Its what sin does to us. Is his specific church (denomination) doing that? I don't really know, since I've never gone to one :) My impression of SGM is not that they're a cult at all... but there are people out there who would say just being a Christian means you're in a cult!
{here's the 2nd half}
For-instance, If you look the word "cult" up in the dictionary, its an interesting find. I can see how some people have decided to say that Christians are members of a cult. And my feeling is, let them say whatever they want. I don't need to run out, making sure they all know its not a cult. My witness and testimony of God's grace is my shield and defense, not quotes from other people.
I know that by being adopted into God's family I have not joined a cult. But because the mainstream of society is taught that we are each our own and should serve NO master and should love ourselves the most and be good to ourselves only - and to live and die for peace, I can see exactly why to so many of my unbelieving friends, I look like I've joined a nice, big fat cult. Especially because every week they pass around a basket, asking for my money ;-)
It appeared to me that his article just stated that he knows firsthand what a cult is and that most of us don't and so we need to be careful and understand his church is NOT a cult. I've heard many cases where someone leaves a cult or abusive atmosphere, only to end up returning to a new form of one. I don't want to imply that's this man's issue at all, just putting it out there :)
I have no issues with Sovereign Grace Ministries (though I confess I don't know a ton about them). I think this man has been offended by things he's seeing online (lies) about his church that are concerning to him, which is fine. I wished he had gone into those a bit more and addressed them, rather than state what the naysayers say and then just move on.
I do get worried when I see people defending their denomination or culture and not defending the Gospel. Which (btw) is not necessarily what I saw this man doing, but it does seem to be very popular these days; denominations waring against denominations.
If someone/something goes against God's Word and is pointing people to a false god and false religion, then yes, I would hope its brought to light, pointed out and exposed. But I think his main point in his article was pointing out that his church serves and loves the One, true God and that alone doesn't make them a cult. I don't know though, because he didn't really elaborate!
Here is the definition for CULT that I found on Dictionary.com
–noun
1. a particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to its rites and ceremonies.
2. an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, esp. as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.
3. the object of such devotion.
4. a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc.
5. Sociology . a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites centering around their sacred symbols.
6. a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader.
7. the members of such a religion or sect.
8. any system for treating human sickness that originated by a person usually claiming to have sole insight into the nature of disease, and that employs methods regarded as unorthodox or unscientific.
..... Also, I'd have to say if people in a church are being led to believe that by leaving and going to a different church makes them in danger of Hell fire, then yes, I would say that 1st church sounds like a cult of sorts :)
We're all going to be held accountable for our own sins for sure, but I do think that God will hold men/women accountable for leading people into sin. Deceiving people into believing that they have a special/different message from God, than what God has already given us through His Word.
I agree with you in that some of this knit picking eventually becomes sin, because it tends to serve no other point, but to point out that you (the person talking against it) is right and the other is wrong. I've not done any reading on these specific websites you're referring to (and I don't think I will) but I often wonder why people have websites "against" this stuff. Why not just do what you said - expose TRUTH?!
I have a friend on FB who has recently joined a very... interesting church. She's made it her goal lately, to post these very "in your face" status updates about the "new" truths she's learning from the Torah. I've been really encouraged by a Pastor friend (from Sacramento) who is mutual friends of mine and this girl's - his comments to her have done nothing but point her to the Scriptures and to remind her of the Truth that Christ gives us in them; the promises, commands and Covenants He's made with His people. I love that he stays on topic and is very kind in his approach and gives Scripture to back up everything he tells her. Its been personally encouraging for me to see and learn from.
Its all about Christ. When it becomes more than that, I think we've erred off course.
sorry this was so lengthy - this is a really deep topic!
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